Bipolar lesson learned from a woman who hung up on me
Hi,
There is a HUGE bipolar disorder lesson at the
bottom of this email. I mean it. Read this
entire thing carefully.
I am serious and not kidding around.
Okay.
What a day it was yesterday. I had a hurt back. A huge
headache. I was all bipolared out by the end of
the day. I know "bipolared" out is not a word
so you don't have to write me and let me know :)
I want to use it because this this is my
daily email, I can make the rules :)
Anyway, some good news and bad news. You remember
the person that worked for me that had to go
into a psychiatric hospital well she
is out now and doing well. She should be
all back and working in about 12 days or so.
She is working on articles titled "From
the inside out--real stories from
in a mental institution." These articles
will be free for you to read and tell
others about. I will drop you an email
when they are up and where they are posted.
The stories she told me were amazing.
Okay, like I said, I heard my back
and it feels like someone is stabbing
me. Why I am telling you this? Just
so you know :).
Then I had many calls yesterday. One
from a person in d.ebt that needed
URGENT advice which I gave only to
realize this person took know notes
and then called back later to ask
the same questions again. NO this
person did not have bipolar disorder.
This was a supporter of someone with
bipolar disorder.
Then I got another call and this one
kind of annoyed me.
I picked up the phone because I thought
it was a friend of mine. Anyway it wasn't.
It was someone calling from Brazil. I could
barely hear the person. It sounded really
really really far away.
I said "hello............." and then after
a minute I heard "Are you there.........."
This went on for like 8 or 9 minutes. Finally
I heard the person ask if it was me, David Oliver,
I said yes. She then proceeded to ask me for
help.
Then I was worried because I had to leave
to go out with a friend and I knew it
was going to be tough to get off the phone,
or even hear or even understand because the
person told me they "spoke little English."
I must say, I am not sure what was even said
or asked. I believe the person wanted some kind
of help. What kind I am not sure. I think she
had a boyfriend with bipolar disorder. She
wanted to know possibly some hospital he could
go to. I told the woman I don't know of any.
She said, "You can't help????" I said "no
I can't. I don't know any hospitals."
Then I made the HUGE and I mean HUGE mistake
of trying to explain my philosophy of doctors,
hospitals, and therapists that I explain
in all my courses/systems. I don't think
she understood or heard me. I am not sure
which one. But she kept asking me for I guess
a name.
I don't even know the names of hospitals in the
US or even in my own state let alone Brazil.
I did tell her to call 911 or help or whatever
system there is in Brazil if there is an emergency.
Then I said that I really have to go because
someone is waiting for me.
Then she said "You won't help me?" I said, "
I am unable to tell you a hospital in Brazil."
Then she said she needed one in San Diego, CA.
I said that I didn't have names there and tried
to explain that she needed to call the police
for a possibly list. She said that wouldn?t help.
Then she said to me, "You are not like your
website. You say you want to help people. I
ask for help and you no help me. You
don't want to help people. You are different
than your website and emails. It's not true."
I was like, "What are you talking about?"
So then I wound up "defending myself" about
how I really did have to go, I don't know
any hospitals and I can't really understand
or hear her. I tried to explain that if she
could fax me with a clear list of questions
she had in English, I would respond in writing
with what I thought.
Then she started yelling at me saying all
kinds of things. Some I didn't understand
some I did. Nothing nice. Bad things
about me.
Then she said and I will never forget
this, "I hope you don't have a nice
day tomorrow because you didn't
help me."
She then hung up on me. After all
of this, the person waiting for me
was gone. So I wound up doing nothing.
BIG BIPOLAR LESSON
First, this lady clearly tried to manipulate
me into staying on the phone. Which I fell
for because I spent more time than I should
have.
If you are supporting someone with bipolar
disorder I am sure you are familiar with
this technique a person with the disorder
uses if he/she is not stable.
NOTE the person who called said she
didn't have bipolar disorder. I find that many
supporters call and try to manipulate me into
staying on the phone and answering every
single last question they would possibly
think of. Back in the day I would spend
hours and hours on the phone and
sometimes I would call back and find that
the vast majority of people NEVER remembered
or used any of the information I gave them.
HUGE BIPOLAR LESSON FOR EVERYONE
I am going to try to make this really
clear because it's confusing. I think what
I am about to say will generate hate mail
to me. You know the "you're going to hell,
shame on you, God hates you, you are a terrible
person, you're the worst, I hope you die,
etc."
But you need to know. I think this is
so important. I don't know why or how
I learned this.
Let me try to explain.
Nobody HAS TO help you with anything
related to bipolar disorder whether
you have bipolar disorder or you are
supporting someone with bipolar disorder.
Please read this again slowly and carefully
and then we will talk about it.
Nobody HAS TO help you with anything
related to bipolar disorder whether
you have bipolar disorder or you are
supporting someone with bipolar disorder.
Now before you get super mad and say, "What
the heck Dave, I thought you were going
to help me." I am to some extent.
But listen to me carefully. Obviously
bipolar disorder can be a nightmare to
deal with. Both supporters and survivors
need a lot of help. Right? Right.
BUT I notice that many people and this
includes both supporters and survivors
believe that EVERYONE and anyone needs
to help them and is obligated or suppose
to help them.
I hear people demanding doctors take them
in for f..ree. Or therapists offer f.ree unlimited
therapy. People demand f.ree. medication.
People demand that doctors, friends, family
members, therapists listens for hours and
hours and hours to all their problems. This is
both supporters and survivors.
These two groups demand lots of attention and
then get super mad when someone doesn't want
to help, listen or have anything to do
with it.
For example, people think if they reach me,
at 1:00am I should stay on the phone all
night long listening to stories and offering
help. I use to do this and I got so mad
and frustrated that I started hating doing
all of this. I almost one day ordered every
thing to be taken done. That was like a year
ago.
Then Michele who has bipolar, adhd, ocd and
borderline personality disorder told me I was
"out of my mind" and "crazy" and that she
was going to put new systems and rules in
place that I better follow and that if I
did I would start really liking all of this
again.
She put the rules in place and it started working
great. Because people were demanding so much
time from me, I thought my brain would explode.
On a side note, it's funny that Michele tells
me that I am crazy sometimes. She is super
smart. She has this amazing ability to simplify
complex problems. Problems we sit around
trying to figure out for days she figures
out in 15 minutes so then it's like
she is a nuclear scientist coming into
the kitchen and helping his kids add and
subtract for school.
Actually yesterday I spoke to her after this
incident and she said she is going to "make
more rules and systems" while she is on
vacation. She said that there will be no
more phone calls to me when she is done.
Which I have to agree, many people
are abusing this. People call me almost
24 hours a day on every line, fax, cell,
work, home, and another line. I have
no idea how people get my numbers.
The problem is, I never know what
people are calling for what. Sometimes
my consulting clients call and I have
to take their phone call because
they pay really, really, really
well :)
But back to what I was saying so you
don't think I have ADD.
There are many people that can help
you and will help you. But there are many
people who won't. You can NOT force
people to help you. If someone doesn't
want to help you or have the time, simply
move on to some one or something else.
And never use the "God is going to get
you. You are mean or an evil person" strategy
to force people to help you. If you ever
did that shame on you. I get that a lot.
You should NEVER guilt someone into helping
you out with bipolar disorder.
For example, my brother offers no help
whatsoever to my myself or my mom. He will
not lift a finger. No matter what he
will not help. I accepted that and
don't ask ever. Why? Because he won't
help. Should he help his mother and his
brother? One could probably make a strong
argument about this but I choose to
spend my time finding people who do
want to help not the ones who don't.
You're going to get really frustrated
if you focus on who refuses to help
you instead of who may help you.
Make sense?
I know I can sit on the phone for 20
hours a day helping people long distance.
If I did, I would go insane. Then you would
see no daily emails, no websites, nothing.
I put together courses/systems so people
could get all the information in one spot
quickly and easily. Can you believe people
call me and ask if I will send 10 cds and
all my courses/systems for f.ree and
I should because I am suppose to be helping
people?
It's the strangest thing.
You can help yourself by getting my
systems/courses. OR you can choice
to figure it all out on your own.
It's up to you.
SUPPORTING AN ADULT?
Visit:
http://www.bipolarsupporter.com/report11
SUPPORTING A CHILD/TEEN?
Visit:
http://www.bipolarparenting.com
HAVE BIPOLAR DISORDER?
Visit:
http://www.survivebipolar.net
Your Friend,
Dave
P.S. Check out my F.ree blog with copies of emails
that I have sent in the past and lots of great
information for you:
https://www.bipolarcentral.com/supporterblog/
P.P.S Check out my F.ree podcast. Hear me give
mini seminars designed to teach you information
you can't learn anywhere else.http://bipolarcentral.libsyn.com
27 Comments:
That was a great story, and a lot of people can learn from that. Everything you said was so true! For everyday life with or without bipolar. I enjoy reading your articles.
Thanks,
Terri
Dave, I know exactly what you are talking about. When my ex goes into an episode I am sapose to drop every thing and help... this is not posible and I am the coldest meanest person in the world when I do not bend to his demands. It took years to learn to stand up and say NO, but in the end, it is what is best. When I can help or listen I do but I will not be bullied into helping and he knows that.
Test
Dave, your column has been a great inspiration to me. My wife has bipolar and we are currently seperated because of the overwhelming burden it has put onme emotionally and financialy. We talk everyday and I did her get her to into a psychiatrist and she is on medication now. I know your course will help and when I can afford it I will send for them. I love my wife and want to help her but her prescription drug abuse has been out of control and treatment has not helped. I know now that I can't help her if she won't help herself and I MUST take care of myself first. It is hard to say no when you love someone.
Thanks for the advice,
Jack
u hv made 2 typos- heard my back n choice when it shd b hurt my back n choose.. dun try 2 do all the impossible tasks; rest ur back
Dave, I also love the columns. I too have not subscribed yet, but cannot due to financial difficulties. My husband and I are seperated due to just too much burden on me and financial difficulties. I do feel like I have abandoned him although he does not think that there is any help out there for him but from reading you cloumns I know that there is hope.
Thanks
Jackie
Dear Dave,
I appreciate all the time you put into helping everyone. I am learning, slowly, with your emails, and trying to find a way to get the courses. Money is tight for a lot of us, but somehow if we relly want something, we find a way to get it.
I am raising a 12 year old granddaughter with bipolar disorder, her mother, my daughter, has the disorder, as does her 9 year old son she's trying to raise. So, we need to look deep to be able to get at least the course for children/teens.
Until then, I am paying attention to your email. Thanks deep within my heart. You are a special person. Please don't give up on us. Thanks to your many wonderful helpers, too.
Jan in MO
I think what you're trying to get at it is the concept of healthy boundaries.
Nowhere on your web page or in your course material does it say it's OK to try to contact you in person. You've been crystal clear in what you can and can't help with. That being said, there are twenty five gazillion ways to screen calls.
I've spent most of my life as a victim to bi-polar disease -- first with my mother, then my husband, and now my adult son.
My life didn't start getting better until I recognized that I had to take responsibility for my life experience. I established strategies both to help them and to help myself. I established boundaries that protected me and my sanity.
I've been taking your free mini-course and it's helped beyond words by giving me the support I've needed to let go of the horrible guilt as I maintain my strategies and boundaries.
Reading the course material and emails has made me see that I'm doing the right things and that I'm not alone.
Your course has been a true God-send! Thank you, Mister Dave! -- Chris
i suport both a parent and a child with bipolor and i agree so much with you they force us to help all the time and then it drains us!!!i deal with depression myself but im so drained i DONT WANT TO HELP MYSELFso i agree so strongly and thank you for saying that it only gives me hope to deal differently and that im allowed to say no to those drains of life thank u kelly
Dave, I don't know if you read these comments or not, but since I
am an optimist, I'm going to take a
chance and tell you that you cannot rescue everyone. You have
limited time and resources, but more importantly not everyone wants to be rescued, despite what
they say. Focus on those who have expressed their gratitude and demonstrated they value your help.
Take care butterfly it has been fun maybe I will catch you in some of the other support groups. And NO your bum looks just fine lol.
**Why thank u kind lady** ((curtsy)) @ gloria :o)
x ...and david..relax..some of us are meant 2 give, others are meant 2 deplete us.. this is normal life...
x Have a lovely sunday people x
xxbuTTerFLy ~ Londonxx
just an FYI: I am a skeptic. i know this person may actually need help for an individual who is bipolar but to me this sounds like a scam or con to pull u in. seeing it came from outside the United States i just dont feel comfortable reading about it.
Dear Dave,
It sounds like you need a certain type of department within customer service. It would take a few operators who are standing by on different shifts; set up around the U.S. from their homes, to delegate where the calls are supposed to go to for you. The operators could also make appointments for you to speak with the people in fifteen minute increments, so that you can schedule calls according to what type they are, route them properly and also have time to yourself. That can be done with an 800 number set up. I'm sure that the callers would understand the need for the fifteen minute time allotment. An automated system could also be used, but it's nice to have a person answer the phone.
Time allotments are necessary because it helps you to have some personal privacy, and as well, it will keep the caller focused on the issues at hand. By the time that you get ready to call each caller back as per what the operator denotes the type of call it is, you'll already have prepared your answers to the best of your ability, etc.
Dear Dave,
He did it again. He never came home with his pay and spent all of his share of the rent and food money on other women and partying and never came home until 6:00 a.m.
(my fiance'....who is no-longer my fiance') I have a hard time believing that a man who just did this last Friday, would tell me on the most recent Friday, that if he ever did this again, that I should leave him and what do you know?? he does it that same night but for a longer time and with more severity. I hadn't even recovered enough financially to pick us back up four days prior to that, when he did it again. Now, I don't know if I'll be homeless tomorrow because of him.. That's not bipolar.
When he came home drunk, with long women's hair on his shirt, he told me that he didn't know where he was after the club closed at 2 am. From 2 till 6, where was he?
Usually, if he doesn't remember or is that drunk, he'd spend ALL of the money. This time he had thirty dollars left. He knew where he was...He also told me that he did it cause he hates me and that I'm just not the woman for him. I beg to differ, he's not the man for me.
He told me to leave if he ever did it again, He systematically tries to ruin me. The thirty dollars that he had left, in no-way would make what we need for rent. I kept my cool, went to work and realized that even a drunk man, would call me to be by his side to have a good time and share a nice time on the beach at night, if he loved me... he wouldn't take my dreams that I've been waiting to have with him for two and a half years of picking his mistakes up, cleaning them up....and than go and give my dreams to someone else. I worked hard to get him healthy so that we could share what I've waited for and four times this month, he gave them to someone else. Turns out that because he expects me to pick up all of the peices, that I am actually funding his cheating.
This time he has not even allowed enough time to lapse so that we could recover. How do we recover? Hopefully my landlord will understand.
I can always recover quickly, but I hadn't even gotten to make a full paycheck before he did it again. I am going to his defense attorney tommorrow, the one who helped with my boyfriend's (or ex) third D.U.I., and I am requesting that the attorney follow his state oath and request the baker act for my boyfriend or get him a court order into treatment. Maybe that will keep jail from being an issue with regard to the drinking.
My (whatever he is) also claims now, that he wants me as opposed to wanting to get rid of me - as he used to say. I told him, IF I let him stay, I want the attorney to draw up a Power of Attorney form so that I can go get his paycheck from his job. If he doesn't like it ... tough. It still is not going to replace what he took from me as far as being a woman and my dreams. He crushed the honeymoon before it began, even though I waited for two and a half years to have the honeymoon with him. If he could be spontaneous with other women, like he was with me when we first met, he should be able to still do that with me. He's only trying to make me live a swinging life style and I refuse. Bi-polar is not an excuse for that.
Holy Smoke!!
You guys have got to get to grips with the word no.
So many who can't say it -- many say you got to but forget to do it to themselves and others takes years before the penny drops.
Fortunately my penny has finally dropped and now my honey is sooooo lovely and even prefers me saying no and what about my needs young man tone! And guess what IT WORKS!! I am now going to help start a business with him. I can even get him to look after my bills as he makes sure I get all the reciepts as proof which makes hims feel more manly and responsible. He understands spending to feel good makes matters worse and now questions his spending and refuses to go out in an episode. He has cut down drinking and smoking and now bean another drug free for nearly a year and the change has helped stabilize him very much. Our next task is getting through christmas it seems a trigger for a major episode.
Dave, your help is most welcomed. I agree with the comment about customer service. Unless you happen to wear blue tights and have a red cape, you can't leap tall buildings, so take your own advice and don't try to solve problems of those that could get your course or get help from others, such as local support groups. My problem is a husband that thinks he knows all about b/p and won't try to find out about me. He is a wonderful man, but has allowed his children (my s/c) to use me financially and when I finally realized it, I'm the bad guy for wanting them to go to work. I need help because I'm depressed nearly all the time inspite of help from my psych. I'm new to b/p and I hurt so much, so much of the time. Your emails do help and I won't call you, but the temptation is there. Get help for yourself before you wind up having a nervous breakdown. Regards
Hello Dave, Keep in mind the way i see it these people are dropping the ball when it comes to their whining, Keep up the great emails, try not to let this get the best of you. experience is what you have you are a voice not a doc, ITs meaningless to have these people call you and harrass you like that. Keep it real you know what you dealing with take what you can and do what you do. i am bipolar and this is good for the emails and and other good advise to pick up along the way. Take care.Laura
Great articele Dave.
Dave please don't let people that expect the impossible get you down. It was totally inconceivable that someone in another country would expect you to know the names of hospitals the world over. However, there is a site to get all USA Hospital listing: www.officialusa.com/stateguides/health/hospitals/index
The key for supporters and sufferers is to research, research, research. If they are reading you daily articles, then they have internet access and should use some of their time to research hospitals, clinics, etc for their own future use.
Keep up the good work Dave.
Mabel Pearson
i think you are a money hungry BOY if you were in hell i would not spit in your face and you know something if your books were free i would burn them not read them. theres more truth in the national inquire than in your books so go ahead and feed your face cause i hope you choke to DEATH on it. your an idiot
Dave, you are absolutely correct. All of us that deal with bipolar want help at some time or another. Those that CHOOSE to help, do so. No one HAS to help. In fact if someone doesn't WANT to help, I'd rather not have their help. The world doesn't owe us anything. If we really want help from the outside world, we must want to help ourselves, first.
It's the classic 12-step thing. First you have to admit you have a problem. Then you must decide to do something about it--yourself. Then you seek help, and help will come. But first you have to LISTEN! Keep up the good work, Dave. And Kudos to your entire staff.
hi dave,
i think you're absolutely right in saying that u can't answer phones all day and explain stuff about bipolar disorder on and on.it would make anyone crazy.it's just fair that anyone should prioritise his health and lifestyle.and people who don't understand this arejust too self centered.
i hope your back gets better soon,i have a back problem too and know how it hurts.try and use yoga exercises for back problems,they work like a charm.take care and thanks for all that you are doing.
reema.
How do you handle someone who openly admits they are bipolar but refuses medication and consumes wine, sometimes 2-3 bottles a day?
Hey dave can you e-mail me when you get a moment? I really ned help. I am a single mom with an 11, 10, and 7 year old who are always asking me why are you so mad? Why are you crying? Mom you need to relax!! this really pisses me off. The doctors I have been to do nothing but prescribe meds like klonopin, welbutrin, respideral, etc. etc. none of which I have never taken. E-mail Evvie1966 @yahoo.com
Dave, I doubt that you fully realize the amount of people who value your input world-wide,so please don't allow any one person to give that valuable brain and heart of yours a bashing just because they're having a bad day. You do do what you can do and that makes you special and valued. Big THANKS Sue (UK)
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