Wednesday, February 27, 2008

Bipolar Disorder? What out for this too

=>PLEASE FORWARD TO FRIENDS, FAMILY AND LOVED ONES <=


Hi,

How's it going?

I sure have a whole lot of things
to do today. I actually am speaking
tonight about bipolar disorder and
I have to get prepared.

Tomorrow I have a lot of things
to handle with my other businesses.

Anyway, I'm really concerned about something,
and I think you need to know about it as
well.

You know I volunteer at several places
where there are people with bipolar
disorder, like support groups and such.

Well, sometimes I like what I hear, and
then I bring that information to you,
because I think you can benefit from it.

But what is really bothering me today,
and I think it's been building up and
I'm surprised I haven't brought it up
before now, is something that I've
noticed happens at some of these
meetings that is NOT a good thing.

I'll tell you about it:

It's when people who have NO clue
about bipolar disorder give advice on
it ? even though the advice is sincere,
it is still sincerely wrong! Now people
can truly get hurt by this advice, and
that makes me mad!

For instance, one person at the support
group meeting said, "My friend told me
that since I seem to be doing so much
better, that I should stop taking my
medications." Then other people
say, yeah, my friend said the same
thing? and before you know it, this
one comment is controlling the whole
meeting, and it is a totally FALSE
thing ? a LIE!

Then, when I try to tell them that
that comment can't be true, or that
it could hurt them, or at least that
they should check with their doctor
before going off their medications,
they ALL look at me like I'm some
crazy person!

Know what I mean?

Or they say their friend told them to
stop working and get on disability.
Another person said that their friend
said that another friend said that they
should take this supplement on the
market instead of their medications,
that it worked for their friend's friend!

In my courses and systems, I teach
the difference between the truth and
myths that are out there about bipolar
disorder:

SUPPORTING AN ADULT WITH BIPOLAR DISORDER?
Visit:
http://www.bipolarsupporter.com/report11

SUPPORTING A CHILD/TEEN WITH BIPOLAR DISORDER?
Visit:
http://www.bipolarparenting.com

HAVE BIPOLAR DISORDER?
Visit:
http://www.survivebipolar.net

But I ask myself, where are these
people getting this stuff? And how
come people are believing it?

Really, sometimes I just want to walk
out of these meetings and just keep
going. But then I remember why I am
there ? to help.

And sometimes that help is just to
tell them the truth about what their
"friends" have been telling them.

In my courses and in special reports,
I expose the myths behind the
supplements and supposed "cures"
for bipolar disorder. Unfortunately,
there is still no cure, no matter what
you may hear at a support group
meeting.

Even though these people are well
meaning, always check with your
doctor before you do anything like
taking a supplement instead of your
medications just because you heard
"a friend of a friend of a friend"
says it works.

Your friend,

Dave

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41 Comments:

At 8:53 AM, Blogger Elena said...

Hi Dave,

Yeah, I've heard it so many times about taking supplements instead of taking their medications. In fact, my Schizzo-Bipolar son wanted to do that too but I told him that he will not stay long in this earth if he will do that. Luckily he was afraid of dying so he never started. Sometimes a care- giver has to be persistant so as to be heard totally and yes it is very hard to get through to them but if you care enough you must insist.

You are indeed doing a good thing keep up the good work.

Take care of yourself too.


Elena

 
At 9:06 AM, Blogger Cathy said...

do not go off your medicines. I know for a fact that if you do it will be the worse mistake he could make. He will have a false sense of security and will have a very bad down hill experience. I know cause I did it. Also I am having a bad time with my bi-polar, I am sprialing down hill at a slow and steady pace. I still take my meds. I have talked to my doctors. He had tried to up my meds and I still feel that same way. I need a support group in my area and I CANNOT seem to find one. Would someone please send me information. To my email address. catdew3@aol.com, I live on Long Island in Yaphank. Please I am begging for help and I don't know where to turn to. Thank you in advance.

 
At 9:13 AM, Blogger AS said...

I'm new to this. My adult son, married, new baby, mortgage, school loans, etc. just had an episode now in the depression stage. How do they go to work and perform their jobs? By the time this is easing up, he'll be looking for another job. Can't afford to do this. So frustrating watching and not being able to help. Thanks for listening.

 
At 9:32 AM, Blogger Ruby Kelly said...

Hi Dave,

I can understand where you are coming from. My boyfriend is the one with bi polar disorder and so far I have not convinced him to get the medical treatment he needs just because of these kind of people. He will admit that he knows he is bi polar and has several siblings in his family that also are. But then he has the friend that tells him to get disability instead of work, the friend that meets him only on Friday because he knows its payday and the friend that tells him no matter what kind of medicince they put you on its not going to help your just going to be a zombie. Well me and you both know that these so called friends are not friends at all. They are losers who just take advantage of John. Because I can't seem to get him to commit to even seeking treatment I use the information from your site and trust it one hundred percent because it has helped. I have to be persistant with him, and when he is down he always comes to me so we know that good support is needed and on top of that accurate information for the supporter and the Bi polar individule. You do an amazing job. Thank you. Please do take care of yourself, we would hate to see you down and out or burned out from the stress of your business.

 
At 9:47 AM, Blogger Graham N said...

Dave asked "Where does it come from?" My guess is it comes from Chinese whispers usually eminating from one or several people with no knowledge of experience of a subject claiming they know a "common sense" answer. Classic I think are those folk who have seen all the self-improvement videos or gone on the course (often paid for by their employers) that convince them ANYONE can improve their lot, be more positive and realise their dreams. Thenm they tell everyone they meet THEY can do the same ... usually before they have even started to realise their own, of course, and assume they can tell people who are unwell (such as us with BP) that we too can be cured of what they assume is some psychological negative spirit. Yeah, the course or the worshipful management guru said society is full of people tanking up on Prozac when they could cure their depression by a spot of NLP and positive thinking. Then, someone esle hears that and they repeat it only with som embelishment: "A friend of mine knows how a friend of got rid his depression by ..." Next, a friend of a friend got rid of depression (and therefore, came of medication) because of ... And next, a friend of a friend of a friend was cured of ... um, I think it might have been BP ... by coming off medication. Oh, and her might have done a NLP course, too. Then a friend of a friend of a friend of a friend got over BP by stopping their medication ...

Wallah! One corrupted line of communication. That's Life!

 
At 10:14 AM, Blogger kat said...

dear david;i hope ur doing well also today. ive read ur lititure and things,and they have helped a lot,i need your advice, please suggest some things for me to try for my lil boy, im still having the problems with his school special ed teachers,screaming at him and not willing to work with him,hes so stressed out when he comes home he crys and has seizures,cause as i hav said he has eplipsey and bipolar he has trouble understanding things sometimes and needs alil more time teaching him and they would rather scream at him or punish him.what can i do?what can i say to these people? also he goes to theropy every monday and she told him this last monday if he didnt straighten up she could discharge him and have him sent to boot school!sometimes he doesnt really understand some things she says and i have to explain them better to him and also in a calmer way. i always set in on there meetings and i think she is very wrong,i told her he needs help in learning to deal with things. as you no he just turned 12 as ive said in my previous emails here. her response was: ive told him what to do and he just isnt getting any better, hes the same as he was when he first came to me. and she gave me a pamplet on boot camp! i looked at it and thought what in the world is this lady doing?please tell me what to say and do about these people! im very desperate! they just dont get it!! my son even said to her please im sorry! and she said,the thing is i dont have to eccept it! what in the world is she doing? please email me and tell me what to say or do about these people i really need a lil guidence. ur friend kat

 
At 10:44 AM, Blogger MA said...

My understanding about bipolar is that it's a chemical imbalance that can only be brought back into balance through the intake of a medically formulated drug. There are a large variety of drugs new and old for the many, many types of people who suffer from the many, many combinations of mental illnesses. Some respond to some and other do not. Finding the right physician to assist the patient in finding the right drugs is essential in trying to maintain this illness.

There is no cure. It's like diabetes. Something is not working right in the brain. It requires constant and steady maintenance. No one likes to take a pill(s) everyday. But if I don't take my Lipitor, I am likely to suffer a stroke and I don't want that to happen to me -- I love life too much. And, I don't like the fact that my liver is paying a huge price so that my blood can be healthier for my brain either, but that's the price I have to pay for the genetic malfunction of my body and that is the choice I make -- take the pill and live.

Better health is about choices, responsibility, and consequences.

Don't go off your meds people. It's like playing Russian Roulette with your brain. The coming and going of the prescriptive drugs takes time for your body to assimilate and produce the changes that are hoped for. Sometimes it's trial and error. Give it time and when it appears that it's not working talk about it with your main supporter and go back together to your physican and let him/her make whatever changes he/she thinks are best after listening to what's going on with you. Again finding the right physican is probably the most important thing you can do. Check out Dave's advice on how to do that. And, by all means, let your main supporter do all foot work for you if you are not able to do it for yourself and until you can.

Supporters really need to get educated properly in order to really be of support. Read. Go online. Talk on the blog. I understand an organization called NAMI has good resources for supporters.

And, remember this is a chemical imbalance. That means that ANYTHING you take into your body chemically is going to either add to the imbalance or help to rebalance the brain -- good or bad. It behooves us to know about what we are eating and drinking and what things are poluting our bodies. It's a physical health issue -- the brain is a part of our physical body.

Keep reading and talking. We are all learning. And, have a good day.

:) ma

 
At 10:56 AM, Blogger JennPen said...

Ma,
I was glad you where able to get things off your chest and out of your mind. Thank you for sharing and in MY opinion your are going strong and be proud of yourself for choosing to live life for your best interest. You really did try your best! Be proud and good luck.

Dave,
Hopefully most BP sufferers don't listen to anyone who tells them to stop taking their meds.
I've done that a ffew times over the years either by suggestion of someone or my own nedd to not have to take pills everyday cuz I felt better at the time. Not realizeing that it was cuz I was taking them in the 1st place.
Now I just accept it.
It's ineveidable so instead of fighting the flow I try my best to just go with it and embrace it.
It hard to stay on meds. for bp's but it's crucial. You never know what could be better for you until you try.
All people are different and nothing works for everyone. You just gotta make it day by day,with hopes for the future while enjoying the present.

 
At 1:03 PM, Blogger mjdemaria said...

Hi Dave,

Lets not also forget that people w/bipolar sometimes, well...lie. I've experienced firsthand a bipolar family member say "so and so said I should come off my medicine" when i know so and so DID NOT say this. They've even claimed their therapist said it when I know the therapist DID NOT.

I'd imagine that as misery loves company, a few people might "pipe up" with this same story when in a group meeting.

I'm certainly not saying that people NEVER give horrible advice to their friends - I totally agree that this happens. But a room full of bipolar people saying that their friends all said it's ok to come off meds? Hmmmm....

I attended weight watchers for awhile and though I know bipolar and being overweight are not exactly comparable, I can tell you there was always a whole lot of agreement in the meetings...we loved to commiserate. But our leader was there to bring us back to playing ground which sounds like you do at these meetings.

Just a different perspective on the situation I guess.

 
At 1:11 PM, Blogger Dave said...

How do one end up with BP? Is it only chemical imbalances that you have or does it go through stages of progression from mild depression, depression, major depression and then BP?
Can incorrect meds in early stages of depression cause you to progress into more severe cases of depression?

 
At 1:19 PM, Blogger Sheila said...

Remember if you only reach one person wouldn't it be worth it?

 
At 1:29 PM, Blogger Jeanne said...

You are right about the medications. They must take their medication! The reason they are doing and feeling so much better is because THEY ARE TAKING THEIR MEDICATION! That means the medication is working!!!!! If they stop taking the medication guess what .... it WILL stop working. My husband understands now that he has to take the medication, probably for the rest of his life.

 
At 1:36 PM, Blogger MA said...

Thank you, Jennpen, for your supportive words. After posting on the blog this morning, I was able to write a wonderful, loving letter to my children and express good positive things about them and me instead of dwelling on what we can not control about their father's bipolar illness. It's so easy to get lost in someone else's life and forget that we have a live of our own to live.

I am going out to enjoy the sunshie today.

Happy day everyone.
:) ma

 
At 2:21 PM, Blogger BPSerenity said...

People think they are psychologist and therapists and tout their knowledge of psychological issues based on one persons past history and say ohhhhhhh it is past life trauma, a bad relationship, or menopause, and the list goes on to explain the behaviors. The only one qualified to give medical advice to a person with BiPolar is a psychiatrist! Bottom Line medication is the only way to balance the brain chemicals for BiPolar. If the side effects are too bothersome discuss an alternative medication so that you can be safely instructed with this illness don't just say all meds don't work or will be like it.

As a person afflicted with the illness it is very comforting to be told that you don't need medications and that you can be cured if you do this or that...but bottom line is that it hurts the person with the illness to be fed snake oils or placebos. Save a life and a family from being torn apart and do the right thing and encourage BP's to always talk with their psychiatrist about alternative choices. After all who knows more about mental illness than psychs do?

 
At 3:29 PM, Blogger Pat said...

Hi Dave
My concern is with having these "support"meetings at all. I have been to a couple as a bipolar support person and did get some helpful info, but mostly they are a downer for the person with bipolar. They would be so much better if they could have some success stories like "I am successful because I stay on my meds" by people with bipolar that are doing well. What an awesome way for someone to give back to their community. I suppose it might be hard for a successful bipolar survivor to be in the presence of others not doing so well. I would love to find people who are living a successful life and are bipolar to inspire my loved with bipolar to stay on their meds and to encourage them with other.phpects of their life that they can attribute their success to.
I too plead, do not go off your medication. Find someone who can support you in that decision.

 
At 3:36 PM, Blogger Pat said...

Hi Dave
here is an interesting article on bipolar and blood tests boy wouldn't that be nice!

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/
23337532

 
At 4:25 PM, Blogger Donna said...

Look I think people who happen to have bipolar can go off their meds & give thier bodies a break from what are toxic meds & their minds a break from the constant reminder meds give that they're mentally ill. BUT this must be done with their doc's help & they must know their simptoms well & have suporters they can trust to help when they are suffering symptoms of an on comming mainia or depression. Like why take meds for years if one only has episods every two yrs or so?

 
At 4:25 PM, Blogger Donna said...

Look I think people who happen to have bipolar can go off their meds & give thier bodies a break from what are toxic meds & their minds a break from the constant reminder meds give that they're mentally ill. BUT this must be done with their doc's help & they must know their simptoms well & have suporters they can trust to help when they are suffering symptoms of an on comming mainia or depression. Like why take meds for years if one only has episods every two yrs or so?

 
At 5:49 PM, Blogger rightwinger said...

I am just learning about Bipolar and its true effects. My wife has Bipolar, and I know how she is with medication, and without. I know that without is not an option ever again.

I have two questions.
How do I know she is taking the right medication. She is sleeping half of the day, and just got prescribed medication for the first time in years. I think the overall feeling of dizziness and sleepiness is more than just an extension of her depression right now. Moreover, getting her assigned to a psychiatrist has proven to be very difficult. She's falling through the cracks after a major breakdown a couple of weeks ago.

Question 2: She got herself into legal trouble, pressed by the voices in her head. Do you have recommendations for hiring a criminal defense attorney for the mentally ill? I'm waiting for a call back that may never come with my prior recommendation, and (as per usual) are very tight on money available to hire. Anything you may have learned would be greatly helpful.

 
At 5:49 PM, Blogger rightwinger said...

I am just learning about Bipolar and its true effects. My wife has Bipolar, and I know how she is with medication, and without. I know that without is not an option ever again.

I have two questions.
How do I know she is taking the right medication. She is sleeping half of the day, and just got prescribed medication for the first time in years. I think the overall feeling of dizziness and sleepiness is more than just an extension of her depression right now. Moreover, getting her assigned to a psychiatrist has proven to be very difficult. She's falling through the cracks after a major breakdown a couple of weeks ago.

Question 2: She got herself into legal trouble, pressed by the voices in her head. Do you have recommendations for hiring a criminal defense attorney for the mentally ill? I'm waiting for a call back that may never come with my prior recommendation, and (as per usual) are very tight on money available to hire. Anything you may have learned would be greatly helpful.

 
At 5:58 PM, Blogger MA said...

Donna:

And where is the fine line that differentiates between someone who only has an episode every two years and someone who has them every 2 months or better yet, rapid cycles? I think this approach is a rather dangerous one. Stick with a good psychiatrist and stay on your meds. It's just too easy for bipolars to go off their meds for a variety of reasons anyway. And the cycle always ends up the same. Is it really worth it?

Let's face it, there is a multitude of people out there with this illness. This illness isn't just about the person who has it. There is a whole other multitude more of people being effected by a bipolar person through personal relationships and each and every time the illness goes untreated people are effected. Children grow up living in enviornments that are influenced by the unfortunates that this illness brings when left untreated. As supporters we are talking about supporting our bipolar loved ones because we do love them and care about them. Are we not also concerned about those who are outwardly effected? I am. I know I have been effected. And so have my children and grandchildren. I want my children and my grandchildren to know that there is treatment and hope for better lives for any mental illness. I want them to have the knowledge and capability to get help should they develop a mental illness because that happens, too. My father was bipolar. My husband is bipolar. His father and mother were bipolar. Two of his sister are bipolar. Two of my daughters are bipolar. What are our chances of having more bipolar in our family. Pretty big. Knowledge is power and power equals being pro-active for a better cause.

Please don't play with or go off your meds, people. There is little to be gained and so very much to lose.

:) ma

 
At 6:09 PM, Blogger judy said...

My 5 year old son is Bipolar / ADHD and he's driving me crazy. His disease has me on the brink fo bankruptcy and on the verge of losing my job. He is on 3 different medications (Vyvanse, Risperdal & Trileptal) and is completely out of control at school. He was suspended for the rest of the week today because of his bad behavior. Nothing seems to be working and I fell like I am sinking in quicksand. He was diagnosed almost a year ago and seems to only be getting worse. Meds help but not enough at school. I am a single parent with no help and I don't know what to do or where to turn. There are no support groups in my area. The school is finally setting up an emergency appointment with the psych doctor now that he has been suspended for two days. I just don't know what to do anymore. Spanking, time outs, and taking away privileges don't work. Talking until I am blue in the face doesn't phase him. When he is good - he's like gold but when he is bad - I can't even describe it. I am sure someone somewhere has experienced what I am having to deal with. Everyone tells me not to give up but I just don't understand what they mean by that. I am fighting what seems to be a losing battle. People make me feel like he is the first child to have Bipolar and no one knows what to do or how to deal with him. Please accept my apologize if it seems like I am rambling but I am at my wits end. Any advice will be greatly appreciated.

 
At 6:14 PM, Blogger lorie said...

Dave, I whole heartedly agree with you on this subject.  On the wrong advice from friends and loved one who have little or no knowledge at all.  My Daughter lives in chorpis christi tx and the doctors don't even seem very informed. and give extremely harmful advice. I know this because until your help my  other daughter  went through 10 years without any real true info. and help. It was a nightmare  and could have been her death  had we not finally got help. Don't know what to do for my daughter down south now? Do you have any answers?SincerelyLorie m. Mong

 
At 6:42 PM, Blogger SuzanneWA said...

Dave - I don't know how these "urban legends" get started that you can get off your meds and take supplements! They are DANGEROUS.

Just because a "friend of a friend of a friend" says something, does NOT make it true. Some people with bipolar WANT to BELIEVE in a cure, when there is none. They want to believe in the "Magic Pill" that will make everything OK. Unfortunately, when a bipolar survivor hears this nonsense, they WANT to have faith that they can become "normal" if they take an herb or a supplement or a vitamin- anything but their medications.

They may be tired of taking their meds for the rest of their lives, or they MAY believe in miracles. They have to take their "heads out of the sand" and be realistic.

There IS no cure for bipolar disorder. It is a life-long illness, just like diabetes. If you had that, you'd HAVE to take your injections and insulin the REST of your life. What's so different about bipolar disorder? Just because it's a mental illness does NOT make it any less REAL.

And trying to "self-medicate" through alcohol or drugs is NOT the answer either, although there are thousands of people who take this route. Until they are diagnosed with bipolar and put on the correct meds - which is, it's true, trial and error - they cannot be stable. Just because you start to feel better after taking your meds for awhile, does NOT mean you are "over" the illness.

PLEASE don't listen to uneducated people telling you to get off your medications and NOT follow a treatment plan. Bipolar disorder CAN be maintained - not controlled-with the proper treatment. It is a chemical imbalance in the brain, and only the proper meds can attempt to alleviate the extreme mood swings of the illness. It is an illness that needs you to be educated about, and not listen to the naysayers with their "pie in the sky" attitudes toward the disorder.

BIG HUGS to all bipolar survivors and those who love them. My prayers are with you, and may God bless you real good.

 
At 6:45 PM, Blogger HelenM said...

Hi David:

I believe the major problem with keeping a person on prescription medications, no matter what condition is being treated, is everyone likes to think their "Chronic" problem is not so bad that they need to take the prescriptions, especially those who have to pay for their meds. And it seems the whole World has been on a "Natural Kick" that keeps growing, and these vitamins and herbs, etc. tend to make people believe you can be cured if they take this or that and the "Witches' Brews", as I call them are a lot cheaper than the meds they would have to buy. There is a slight bit of truth to their claims of whatever it should relieve, but you would have to take a lot of it to feel the effects, making the prescription actually cheaper to buy than the "Brew". I take several drugs to prevent migraines and depression that are also used to treat BPD, Schizophrenia, and other mood disorders. Fortunately, I have Medicare and Medicaid because if I had to pay for these I would be doing without and in the ER every other day for IV therapy to treat my migraines. Unfortunately for my daughter I can only provide 2 of the 3 meds she needs to be taking. The Risperdol (not sure of spelling) is the one she needs the most and the one that is the most expensive, of course. I am pushing her towards applying (again) for SSI and keep it going this time. If I push her too hard she will withdraw, go to her bedroom, and tell me to leave her alone. If I don't push enough it will never get done, so I am trying to find the "median balance of push" to get her to take the 1st step towards applying for SSI. When she qualifies for SSI she will qualify for Medicaid. Then she could finally take the medication that has proven to help her more than any other combination she has been on in the past 8 years or so. Sometimes I wonder if she is afraid to "feel normal". I believe her father is because a couple of years ago I got him fixed up with some meds to help stabilize his mood swings and it was working, I could tell the difference in his voice when we would talk over the phone. He would admit he felt better than he ever had before. Then after about 8 months of feeling somewhat normal he called me, with the same old hateful voice he used when he was having an episode and informed me that he couldn't take the meds anymore because it was causing him to have migraines. My daughter tells me he came up with a reason to stop the meds because to admit that a medication helps him also means that he has to admit something is wrong with him, he has just now reached the point where he will say maybe there is a problem somewhere. I feel sorry for him, but he drives me nuts and I can't stand to talk to him on the phone anymore because he knows what buttons to push to make me yell at him, thus proving to himself that I do still care. We have been divorced for about 15 years and he will never have a relationship, not even a 1-night stand. My daughter tells me that's because he still loves me and always will, but I have moved on a couple of times since our divorce (3 to be exact) and currently have another husband with BPD to contend with. It has been my experience that, for the most part, people do not want a "chronic" any kind of disease and to continue taking medication day after day at the same times means they have to come to terms within themselves that they are "broken" so to speak and "can't be fixed". I am the same way, I have COPD, in the final stage of emphysema meaning there is no cure for me and I am "broken", but instead of making "my broken" better, I will suffer a little more each day until God determines my time here is up. No, I do not use my medications as prescribed. I use my nebulizer when I absolutely have to, I only take steroids when I am getting a cold or virus. I hate to admit that I am "terminally broken" and will never get any better and the worst part of my situation is I might or might not have been able to prevent it, if I had stopped smoking, but I will never know for sure because I still smoke.

 
At 7:17 PM, Blogger perphila said...

My husband isn't on his meds and had stopped seeing his doctor. We are now in court for divorce (not my choice) and he was ordered back into therapy. Part of the order was that he was to provide me with info on the first of every month from his doctor saying he was seeing someone and and what days. I got the first report and his doctor said he seemed to be in a "normal mood and didn't need to be on medication for now." I am now wondering about this doctor. He had said earlier in court that my husband was "in the bipolar spectrum" and also told my husband he did not recommend he stop taking his meds because of a possible relapse. My husband however chose to stop taking his meds and he worked out a plan with the doctor to ween off the medication over a two month period. There has only been one blood test for my husband since he started to see this doctor last march. Is this right? I am deeply suspicious about this. I have children to think of and he was not behaving well before he left towards them. I mean, foul language and scaring them etc. He has since been abusive to me in two instances and he was ON medication then. Although he was not taking everything perscribed. When I mentioned that to him and his doctor they both said it was ok he didn't take certain meds if he didn't want to. What? The doctor seems caring and nice and is easy to get in touch with compared with every other doctor I have ever dealt with but still....I know since my husband has gone back to see him I haven't had any contact with the doctor. I know he is only getting half the picture. I want to help my husband but I have been shut out and I feel I need to focus more on how his mental health with affect the children and their physical safety and emotional well being when they are around him. He isn't stable by any means but I feel like the kids and I are the only ones who see it. He isn't off the map in his actions right now but I know the meds he did take are still in his system. I am wondering now how long it will be before he becomes depressive again. He was almost always depressive and his manic phases were short and quick and I never realized what they were before this major one he had this past summer. He is still hypomanic but told the kids he was, "just depressed for a while I took some medicine and it made me better and I'm fine now." I have no idea what to expect and it is scary. He isn't living at home anymore and I am afraid of what will happen while he has the kids. I knew taking meds wouldn't be his silver bullet. I knew he needed therapy too which he never got. I just thought it would be a giid place to start. I also knew the combo he was trying might not work and he had already switched once and had increases twice. But, he summed it up really when he toldme he didn't want to be on pills for the rest of his life. When he was crying on the bathroom floor about taking them told his doctor and my husband was furious at me. He is still angry telling me I am using his "depression" to get back at him and to keep the kids from him. I know there is nothing I can say for now that will make him see how worried and scared I am for him and them but it still hurts me. I am not sure what to do next but I have tried many different ways to get him to take his meds and all have failed so far. I will just try something else. His family agrees with him to not takes meds due to their religious beliefs which my husband does not believe in himself but since they are agreeing with him he is now talking to them again. If it weren't for our kids I am not sure how supportive I could be for him at this point.

 
At 8:26 PM, Blogger HelenM said...

This is for perphila:

I am very sympathetic to your situation. But 1st I want to stress that I am not a medically trained person, other than previously working in skilled nursing facilities. I base my responses solely on experience. A DR of any sort is human and they all make mistakes. The psychs that you have to wait the longest for you (or your husband) to get your initial evaluation app't are usually very busy and that is typically because they are very good. I have seen several specialists over the years and the only time I got a fairly fast (2 weeks) app't was because my DR called the other DR and made the app't himself. Otherwise, I would have been waiting for 2-3 months. What is worse, is you may have to shop around to get a good Psych and that can take a lot of time. Let's face it: Treating BPD (or anything medical condition) with the right medications is a trial and error. Sometimes you get lucky and find the right mix that help the person fairly quickly and then some, such as my daughter, take several years to find the combination to help her the most. We live in a rural type setting, although we are getting more DRs everyday, but 8 years ago when my daughter went through all the counseling would be able to help her, her counselor got on the phone and got her an app't within 2 weeks for her initial assessment. Otherwise, a 2-3 month wait. This was amazing because he was the only psych in our area who accepted ID Medicaid, which was all we had. He has been a fantastic Psych, I see him occasionly. My daughter doesn't have any medical insurance but he has seen her 6 times this past year without mentioning any type of payments and provided her with samples of Risperadol (unsure of sp) until he ran out of them. He has pretty much always been available to my daughter and he told her in advance if he was going to be out of reach and about how long. He cares about his patients and he does whatever he can to help them. So it can take a very long time to find a good Psych, but they are out there. You just have to keep going to get the right one. But for now I would say that primarily you must take care of you and your children. I have been down that road with the father of my daughter. While he never hurt our daughter physical, he made up for it mentally and mental pain never heals when it comes from a Bi-polar to a Bi-polar. If you are afraid he may hurt your children then you should check out supervised visitation. It is up to you now to make sure your babies don't get hurt from their father and to keep you from being hurt more. If he physically abuses you then dial 911. Do not falter, just do it and then he will know you mean business and he may never hurt you again. But you are going through a divorce initiated by him and you need the documentation of his abuse so you must call the cops and get everything on paper because if you are in the right state and he and his so-called DR helps, they can turn the story around and make it appear as if you are crazy and incable to properly care for your children. You can end up losing custody of your children to him, if he should be able to maintain through the divorce and decide he wants custody. So Beware just because people with BPD have episodes, they are very intelligent and manipulative. Good luck.

 
At 8:51 PM, Blogger Nightlady said...

My boyfriend has a number of "friends" who are just users and advantage takers - certainly not helpful. He falls out with them on a regular basis and when everything starts improving in his life he makes up with them again and it all goes down hill again. Right now he is in an episode, which (I think) is slightly higher than hypomania. This is probably due to his doctor increasing the anti-deppressants. I have watched the "high happiness" progressing gradually over the last 2 weeks. I can handle it at this level, just hope it doesn't get any higher. He is taking all his medicine, as far as I know.

About 18 months ago his then girlfriend manipulated him into giving up his medicine. When, as a result of it, he had a major episode, he ended up in the psych ward for a whole month. Since then, he doesn't listen to so-called friends' advice, which is a good thing. However, he is still leaving himself open to bad influences. e.g. when he goes out for a drink with me, we have just one drink maybe two at the most. When he goes out for a drink with his alcoholic friend and watches her knocking it back he tends to have quite a few more himself. Although I have never known him to get drunk, his medicine is less effective mixed with alcohol. He has a doctor's appointment early next week - hope for the best.

 
At 12:56 AM, Blogger Deborah said...

You said it, Dave. I have tried nutritional supplements. For one thing they are out of my budget. For another, medications are still needed. I have had two major episodes of bi-polar in which I was suicidal. Neither of them was much fun and both of them were caused by family problems and the wrong medications. I would like to never experience this again!

 
At 12:57 AM, Blogger Deborah said...

You said it, Dave. I have tried nutritional supplements. For one thing they are out of my budget. For another, medications are still needed. I have had two major episodes of bi-polar in which I was suicidal. Neither of them was much fun and both of them were caused by family problems and the wrong medications. I would like to never experience this again!

 
At 3:00 AM, Blogger Karen said...

Hi Dave, What is up with the friends? Sometimes I forget to take my meds. when I wake up and just today I was with a friend going to Jamba and she said did you take your meds. today. Then she said I am going to name it, the bipome- Cruela- she could not bring me home fast enough to take my meds.I am going back to school in April, SSI is not enough and from what I have seen is people kinda give up or get stuck there. My cousin is on it she is smart, beautiful, however she can not leave the house, she rarely showers, and she has been fighting my battels and winning.We always talk about our lives would be better if she could just walk out the door. It is what it is, and we can at least bounce off each other. She has said to me why work when you can sit on your ass- I do not want to sit on my ass, I want to make money again. Thanks for all you do Dave!, Karen

 
At 3:16 AM, Blogger Karen said...

Hi As, Dave's books are the ticket for you to be able to help your son. You worry about his job, you are so lucky he still has his job. Many of us lose our jobs, house, spouse. Try to turn that frustration into knowledge so you can help him while the damage is not so overwelming.Separate your son from the bipo and fight.Daves books were very helpful for me, well worth the $48.00. Take care, Karen

 
At 4:26 AM, Blogger Devina said...

Hi Dave
My husband was under the hospital 2yrs ago as his sister is a nurse and he was showing all the classic symptoms of bipolr, however he was discharged saying it was circumstances at the time that led to his behavoiur.
he has now been admitted to hospital under section 2 of the mental health act.
He is so angry and does not believe that he is ill and hate me and everyone that says he is ill, this is so difficult as we have been together for 20 yrs and he now doesn't want me.

 
At 4:50 AM, Blogger Devina said...

2 yrs ago my husband was under the hospital as he was showing all of the symptoms of bipolar, he was discharged and said it was circumstances at the time that caused his behaviour, he has now been admitted under section 2 of the mental health act on 28 day assessment. He has so much anger and hates me and anyone else that says he is ill, he will not accept that his has just suffered a major episode, he has not been diagnosed yet but the doctors say his symptoms are leading to bipoler. he is fighting medication at the momemt and he is not the man i married, can you please advise?

 
At 8:59 AM, Blogger crbradshaw4 said...

Hi Dave,
Keep in good work! It's helping Bipolar and mental illness.
Okay,I want shre about medications ask your Dr, I take one Lithium in morning and 2 at bedtime,togretol 3x a day and Clonazepam 3x a day and one Abilify in morning seem to help Bipolar. At first depression was there a while then went away.Just thought give you the medications may be right for those suffering.
Dave you did well keep up with it,May we all thank you for advice. Yes please dont get off medications youre sitting on time bomb! That extactly Dr told me.
God bless you all out there be with you.Amen.
Warm Regards,
Clinton

 
At 9:04 AM, Blogger crbradshaw4 said...

Hi Dave,
Keep in good work! It's helping Bipolar and mental illness.
Okay,I want shre about medications ask your Dr, I take one Lithium in morning and 2 at bedtime,togretol 3x a day and Clonazepam 3x a day and one Abilify in morning seem to help Bipolar. At first depression was there a while then went away.Just thought give you the medications may be right for those suffering.
Dave you did well keep up with it,May we all thank you for advice. Yes please dont get off medications youre sitting on time bomb! That extactly Dr told me.
God bless you all out there be with you.Amen.
Warm Regards,
Clinton

 
At 11:15 AM, Blogger Catusflower said...

Hi Dave, Usually in our support groups we tell the newcomers, what worked for me may not work for you. We care and support you when your up or down. But we should never play Doctor. Thanks, Be good to yourself and others.....Catusflower

 
At 9:46 AM, Blogger perphila said...

For Devina,
I am so sorry for what you are going though. 20 years with someone is a long time. To see that person you love change and no longer be the person you knew is so confusing. I have been with my husband for 18 years and am going though a similar thing. He no longer wants me either and also will not admit his illness or take medication. I have no real advice to give but to let you know you are not alone. I know I have felt that way so many times I can't even count. I hope that being in the hospital will be what it takes to open your husbands eyes. It may not though. My husband has never been hospitalized as of yet. He is no longer in a full blown, scary episode but is still doing destructive things. There are times when I wonder if I am losing my own mind and he is so convincing at times I have to draw back and look over the things he has done to remind myself. I pray things work out for you. Knowing there isn't anything you can do to help is fustrating and scary. I am trying to learn to let him come to his own realizations and it is the hardest thing for me. I want to scream sometimes but that of course wouldn't help just make my thoat sore..:) I still have that desperate feeling like he is only just out of my reach and if I could only to this or that he would start to do what he needs to do to get better. It is a work in progress. Some days I am better at it than others. This is going to be a long hard road but I know that it will ok someday. I just have to keep trying to keep myself together before I can do anything if at all for him. I wonder about our 18 years and what we had built and worked for and our dreams we shared together to be gone in less than a month. How can you lose what feels like a lifetime so quickly? This illness is a thief and stuggling against the unfairness of it all is difficult. I am new to this I have been learning as much as I can for the past 8 months and I still feel as if I am at the tip of the iceberg. Keep going forward a little every day. Others here have a lifetime of experience and that counts for more than any book I have read. Good Luck.

 
At 10:26 AM, Blogger perphila said...

for helenm
Thank you for your comments.
His visits with the kids right now are supervised. At least in home. He is still transporting them because of an oversight of the judge. What I am afraid of is that those visits will stop being supervised because of his doctor saying he is ok. Bottom line is he was diagnosed bipolar. He was on medications. He never saw a therapist. He is now no longer taking anything and his doctor seems ok with that. I'm not. He still isn't seeing a therapist. My husband hadn't even been seeing his doctor long enough for him to determine what kind of bipolar he has just that he was in the "spectrum". I was thinking the doctor was ok and we were lucky since he seemed to be good on my husband first try. The doctor gave my husband samples to take home when he told the doctor he couldn't afford the medications. He told the doctor he could no longer see him if he didn't have disability and he needed something written from the doctor to get it. the doctor did that for him too. My husband was angry at him for not filling out the paperwork as fast as my husband wanted but he did it and so my husband was able to get disabllity from his work. That is my husbands only income because he doesn't work and yet he says he isn't ill. The doctor encouraged my husband to bring me into the sessions but I had no idea because my husband didn't want me there. It wasn't until I called on my own I found that out but by then it was too late. My husband was gone and left destruction behind. The first meeting we had with the doctor together was after my husband had left and we had met earlier in the day and he had tried to hit me and told me not to come. I was a wreak and in tears and scared but I came anyway. He was furious. He never said anything but he was shaking with anger towards me. As soon as the doctor came out he was a totally different person. Cool, collected, calm and distant. He tried to sound logical and agreed with everything the doctor was saying and he whole time I was crying in the other chair. If anything I was the one who looked terrible. The session wasn't about him and his illness at all. It was about how he wanted to "terminate" our marriage. That was the first time I had heard him say that. I was in tears all over again. Since then all his bad actions are supposedly about divorce not his illness. I can not understand how the doctor can feel my husband is bipolar and needed medication to saying his is in a normal mood and doesn't need medication any longer. I can understand taking the time to find what medication is right for him and I know that can take a long time. As it was we hadn't gotten the combination correct before he quit. he hadn't even taken everything he was perscribed. How do I present that in court? How do I protect my kids from his actions. He has been physically abusive to the kids before. Not beatings like he had experienced as a child and maybe that is his ruler on what is abusive and what isn't. Maybe he sees slaming his son into a glass door and swearing in his face ok compared to black eyes and swollen faces he and his mother and siblings got from his alcoholic, depressive father. It is unacceptable to me and what he and I both felt and talked about before all this. I have distanced myself from him enough now I don't think he has an oppertunity to hit me and the time he did I didn't get a protective order because I just was in shock. I deeply regret not doing that now. Anyway, this is a long thank you but the topic of going off meds is a timely one for me. I wonder, how long does it take for a person who stops taking meds to falter. I know it varies from person to person depending on what they took and the severity of how the illness affects them personally but is there an ANY kind of average? Not that i am asking you personally...:) The more I learn the more questions I have....thanks again.

 
At 3:20 PM, Blogger HelenM said...

perphila:

I want you to know that my heart goes out to you and you are always in my prayers. I have no formal training, just experience, older, and hopefully a little wiser than I was with my 1st husband who had BPD. I was wondering if perhaps you could make an appointment with your husband's doctor to help you figure out where and what to do next. Believe me, I have been to my daughter's psych more than a few times for my own benefit, as well as advice on what to do. I had no idea what BPD was when I divorced her Dad, I just knew the mental abuse had to stop somehow but a divorce didn't stop anything. He was physically abusive before I got pregnant and I warned him that if he ever laid a hand to me again or my child that I would go to where he would never see us again. He knew all my (5) brothers and knew that if i wanted him kept away from me they would stop him. So he had enough control to not be physically abusive but he sure put out on the mental abuse and still does for that matter. One thing I am fairly sure of is that I never heard of anybody who can continue to qualify for disability when their doctor says they are ok. I believe there are some things going on that you are not aware of. Or he hasn't reached the time for a new evaluation to see if he still qualifies for disability. I know a few people who scammed the system to get disability when they didn't qualify and when they got caught the payback was pretty rigid. So either your husband is ill enough for disability benefits or he is not sick and is scamming the system which is what I would bring to court with me, if I were in your shoes. But remember I am not a lawyer, so I can't tell you or advise you on anything. I can just tell you from my experience (I have been divorced in 3 states, do-it-yourself type and I only know what the law was then and there) and you can decide what to do with it and I will keep you in my prayers.

 
At 9:23 PM, Blogger caforjaz said...

Nowadays is really common to use antidepressants to medicate pain or anxiety .
We know that this kind of meds can make a person with bipolar disorder go into a maniac episode , sometimes a very big one !So , it is very , very important to tell to any kind of doctor all kind of meds you are taking !

 

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