Update and Bipolar disorder is NOT an excuse for this
Hey,
How’s it going?
Hope you are doing well.
I am going to wind up get tons of hate mail about what I am going to say concerning bipolar disorder today.
Actually before I jump into that, I wanted to tell you something.
Last night, I started getting tons of phone calls again late at night. It’s really annoying. 3:00am phone calls.
I actually have an emergency line that I have to keep open for one of my businesses and I guess someone found the number and gave it to a bunch of people.
I actually picked up and was not happy. The person was shocked that I wasn’t super excited to talk about bipolar disorder at 3:17am EST.
If you have my numbers use your head and PLEASE don’t call late.
I must say as this grows bigger and bigger and bigger it’s hard to control. My lists increases up to 2000 people in a day. There are lots of things to consider.
The organization is virtual. No one understands a 100% virtual organization so it’s hard talking to lawyers, accountants, etc about everything. It gives me a headache. Especially when people find out it’s in mental health and I have lots of people working for me with one or more mental illnesses like bipolar disorder.
I HATE spending 45 minutes of a 1 hour meeting defending that it has worked and can continue to work. I know all these “professional” people are looking out for me but it’s still annoying.
Soon I am going to be posting a new job for an administrative assistant. We are working on a ew hiring process. This job is going to be really important and critical to the future grow.
There is no way I can continue to handle all that I have been handling.
I will keep you posted.
Guess what happened to me? I was volunteering the other day.
This man was totally out of control. He was talking loud. Interrupting. Walking around. He was scaring people. Circling around them.
He came over to me. And said all kinds of things to me. It was really making me mad.
Then I just looked away. I saw several people walk out.
I thought that this person might attack me. I actually prepared for it in my head.
At the end, I went up to the other members. I complained to them that this person should not be there.
They said, “Well he is a good member normally.”
I said, “That’s great. You can’t let manic people disrupt the meetings like this, for their own safety and the other people’s safety.”
The person running the meeting said, “Dave it’s not worth the fight.”
I was like, “And you are supposed to be a facilitator with that kind of attitude?”
I told him that there should be someone who should have stopped this man from doing that kind of behavior.
And it seemed like I was the only person who was, like, scared of this guy, you know?
Everyone else just acted like this was NORMAL!
I tried to reason with people, but I finally gave up.
Sometimes you can’t reason with unreasonable people.
If they couldn’t see anything wrong with letting a manic person “run the show,” no amount of my complaining was going to do any good. Even if I was right.
Let me tell you something:
Bipolar disorder does NOT give you a pass on bad behavior.
Remember that.
In my courses/systems below:
SUPPORTING AN ADULT WITH BIPOLAR DISORDER?
Visit:
http://www.bipolarsupporter.com/report11
SUPPORTING A CHILD/TEEN WITH BIPOLAR DISORDER?
Visit:
http://www.bipolarparenting.com
HAVE BIPOLAR DISORDER?
Visit:
there are cases when people did all kinds of crazy things.
And supporters just stood by.
They didn’t know what to do.
They were embarrassed.
They didn’t want to fight with a person with the disorder.
The person got fired or suffered other dramatic consequences.
Supporters were made to look like fools.
But it’s your duty as a supporter to step in and get your loved one into treatment.
Don’t be like the people at that meeting I went to.
Don’t let your loved one be the manic person who goes crazy acting out and just doing whatever they want to just because there’s no one to stop them.
Just remember that bipolar is NOT a pass on bad behavior.
I know people are going to say, “Dave you don’t understand, I can’t control my bipolar disorder.”
That’s NOT true. If you can’t control it, get a better treatment plan and don’t go out into public. If your loved one is not stable, do NOT bring them out to say and do things to people. That’s dumb.
My mom said to me, “If I am ever manic you have my permission to stop me from making myself look like a fool.”
What annoys me the most is the people who go in and out of episodes all the time and say and do crazy things and then say, “oh, it’s my bipolar disorder, feel bad for me, I can’t help it. Deal with it.”
I am super mad at the person that did this at the meeting. He should know better. The people at the meeting should be ashamed of themselves for allowing it as well.
You know what? I bet 80% of the people at the meeting will NOT come back.
Think I am too hard on this person or being “mean”?
Let me know. Hey I have to run. Catch you later
Oh, later today, I am going on a charity run/walk with my Goddaughter Anna who is 7 months old. She is not going to be doing any walking or running J
I am going to be pushing the stroller. I can’t wait until she can walk and talk. Since I know nothing about babies I am not sure when that is going to be? I have ask someone or look it up online J
Okay catch you later. Have a great day and let me know about today’s email. Okay?
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I am a 28 year old single parent of 6 boys under 10—My oldest which is diagnosed with Autism, my 9 year old diagnosed bi-polar and add/adhd schitzophrenia and all that wonderful stuff and my 7 year old who is diagnosed with add/adhd. Anyway my 9 year old who is diagnosed with bi-polar often tries to pull off doing crazy stufflike that when we go to the store, or anywhere I need to go. Having 6 little boys alone with you at the store is hard enough, even without the other issues my children are facing, but when my 9 year old begins his outrageous acts it gets me so mad. I know he is capable of controlling it because if we are somewhere that HE wants to be or he is doing something HE wants to do he will get it together pretty quickly. However when we are doing something he doesn;t particularly care for he will just appear totally whacked out and tends to totally humiliate me sometimes. His other brothers feed off of him so then there I am stuck with 5 children acting totally crazyand the baby screaming because I am not able to tend to him being that I am too busy twith the others trying to get them to behave—-It is NOT OK for the behavior to be overlooked because of a diagnosis. if that were the case I would have given up on my 10 year old when he was diagnosed with autism and he would have never had a chance in the world and would not be where he is today. You are right. Being Bi-polar is not an excuse to act like a crazy maniac. If more people would realize that and try to control that behavior instead of using it as an excuse there would not be so much of a problem. I think that people are so used to just getting away with acting like that that they will continue to do that kind of behavior as my child does to his advantage and until we step up and let them know that there are consequences to that kind of behavior maybe they would try to maintain themselves better. People tend to do whatever works. If acting crazy works then guess what until someone steps up and does not allow it to happen it is going to continue, THANKS
I totally concur. Having Bipolar disorder does not give you the green light to bad behavior.
My son has bipolar.He is 16. I will not take him certain places when he is worked up. I have seen him cry at home from embarrasement over his own behavior.When he is taking his medicine on a regular basis this will seldom happen.I love your emails! Thanks, Lory
Hi Dave, well I have recently been diagnosed with biopolar. I always knew that something was not right with me, but couldn’t place my finger on it. I find that your emails make me feel like I am going to be ok, that I just have to keep the faith and I have lots of support from my family.
I think that acting out in public is just not right or acceptable. I hope that in time I’ll be able to deal with things better.
this is a normal behavior for my grandchild’s mother. She assumes she can do what whenever she wants. My grandchild has been with me most of her life so she doesnt have to see the behavior. Her problem is she stops taking her medication ; she is just fine without it; then retreats to illegal drugs or alcohol and claims her medicine isnt working. It has just become a normal cycle around here. I am sick of it. At what age can you tell if a child has bipolar. I am afraid my 3 yr old grandchild does have this and then at what age can medication be started. Of course I have been told she wont take it because it’s dangerous. Is it or is the behavior that comes with this bipolar attitude more dangerous. Some states monitor people to make sure they take their meds not ours so we get the 2 am calls with her just going on to the point of taking the phone off the hook so no they dont have the right to behave like this in public or anywhere else for that matter. Some of us that deal with it 24/7 are sick of it. Sorry but I have only my experience to back up my attitude but I also have only one grandchild that should be protected from I am sorry but a crazy mom. This is real and it isn’t just going to magically go away so maybe she should. I sometimes just hope she would, sorry but 4 years of a nightmare and alot more to go isn’t in the real scheme of things.
Right on Dave. A support group should not enable bahavior which needs changing.
Dave-I heartily agree with you about the guy at the meeting who was going manic. It is not fair to the others at the meeting and it is unkind to allow a bipolar person who is manic to make a fool of themselves. My son is bipolar and so is my brother-both highly functional and on their meds! (Thank you God!) I recently had a milestone birthday and my son didn’t remember it. He is financially strapped so all I really wanted was a phone call or a card. When I talked to him about it he blamed his bipolar disorder. I told him that using bipolar to excuse bad, rude or inconsiderate behavior is not okay. Then I gave him suggestions to help him remember the birthdays of the important people in his life. My brother, who is one of my heroes-I am in awe of all he has to deal with each day while working full-time to support a family and remain stable- did remember my birthday! Hang in there Dave and focus on the positive messages you get.
I am the mother of a Biploar child and between his father, myself and his therapist we always tell him that he can never use his illness as an excuse for any bad behavior. We feel it is very important that he takes responsibility for his actions and that he tries very hard to make the right decisions when he is having a manic episode and gets very angry and wants to destroy property or hit someone. This has been a long, hard, exhausting journey so far,and we know it will be a lifetime one as well, but it is so encouraging to have the support from you. Take care and thank you! Tammy
To TINK – it sounds as if you and your husband have been enablers for your grown son. Of course, mixing street drugs, alcohol, and whatever legal drugs he’s taking does NOT make him more responsible.
At 32, you say he acts more like he’s 16. Has he ever lived on his own, or depended solely on you? I feel for you, because, as a bipolar survivor myself, I KNOW the “normal” periods just lull your supporter to think they have it all “under control.” Because he has extreme episodes, has he ever been HOSPITALIZED to get his medications regulated? I KNOW this is a harsh suggestion, but sometimes “tough love” is the only answer to a problem. Because there’s no cure – bipolar disorder is a LIFE-LONG illness, and has to be dealt with that way. You never KNOW when another episode will occur – WITHOUT meds and therapy to stabilize him.
You have my prayers and best wishes for the future. Sometimes learning HOW to live with your son is a struggle – but will become easier as time goes on.
Dave,
You are right to be upset about the persons behavior as well as the ambivilent response from the group. You are exactly right when you say that bipolar is not a pass for bad behavior. There are good reasons for meds and this is an excellent example.
What I think is that sometimes a manic episode hits you before you are aware of it and the others have just either grown used to his manic episodes or he is so menacing that they prefer to not deal with him. I am on a cocktail of meds that keep me fairly stable, but a little stress makes me manic, my daughter is on her way to stability but a little stress makes her manic and the same for my husband. I have known others who were manic and didn’t realize it until their supporters set them down and told them they were manic and anyone who deals with Bi-po manic episodes knows the person isn’t responsible for their actions. Some get mean, some just have extreme levels of energy and are highly irritable and so on. And the fact is that even though we receive proper treatment and counseling there is no way to predict a manic episode for sure, everyone is different. But they should never have allowed you to be threatened by this man.
Hey there … I saw your post on the disruptive guy and had to chat on it a bit. Seems I had the same experience a short while ago. I was chairing a meeting on Dual Diagnosis … Dual Diagnosis Anonymous …DDA. there was this guy in it that was being very disruptive and diffcult. I just put him on the spot over and over till he tired of being asked to tell us about what it was that he was interrupting the meeting with and he just got up and left. I thanked everyone else in the meeting for their patience and tolerance and asked them if I handled it OK. They said I did fine… enough for me. I really wanted ot handle it different as it was a very annoying and scary deal. Sorry it happened to you ….WooD!
Okay, Dave,
I have a whole different take on what you talked about in your e-mail today, specifically about the guy who you said was acting out.
Of course I agree that having a diagnosis of bipolar disorder doesn’t EXCUSE the “bad bahavior”. But, with the experience of having worked as a psychiatric nurse for ten years, I would rephrase (and reframe) the situation as you described it. I didn’t see or assess the person, but from the behavior you describe (loud talking, walking and circling around, disrupting the meeting and frightening some people, including you), what I would say is that the person was probably in an agitated manic state, and I would say that his bipolar disorder EXPLAINED his SICK behavior – NOT “excused” his “bad” behavior. Just as having diabetes EXPLAINS someone’s having a blood sugar level of 250 (”sick”, not “bad”).
You said that you tried to talk to the facilitator and others in the group, somehow expecting them to “DO something”. Now, Dave, you are an expert on bipolar disorder and manic episodes. What is it, exactly, that you would have them do? Should they approach the person, tell them that their behavior is inappropriate and unacceptable and for them to stop the behavior? If they’re in a manic episode, that will probably only further agitate them. Should the person be asked to leave? Maybe, and that may work, or it may further antagonize him. Should the police be called to remove the person? You and I both know the law; unless someone is a threat to himself or others, “acting out” isn’t against the law.
A person cannot be committed just because they’re “crazy”. I know, because I was certified to commit people, and I know what the criterium are. The person has to either have verbalized suicidal intent, homicidal intent, or have exhibited clear violent behavior.
The best thing would have been it that person had had a supporter who was knowledgable about bipolar disorder, who could try to convince the person that he needs help (see a psychiatrist for evaluation and take whatever meds are supplied, as well as see a therapist regularly). You and I both know how difficult that is to accomplish. There are ways to try, but you can’t make someone who doesn’t want help get the help. We cannot force anyone to take medications against their will. We can hospitalize them only if they’re suicidal, homicial, or are so psychotic that they can’t meet their own basic needs and are therefore a threat to themselves. That’s it. I know that yuo have information in your courses about how to persuade someone that they need help, and how to help them find that help, and I haven’t read your courses (can’t afford them), but I think that even you will agree that, even if you follow all the steps, a very large portion of people who are mentally ill will refuse to get help.
Also, maybe that person IS taking their meds; sometimes a person with bipolar disorder will have breakthrough episodes while being treated. They may need, from time to time, either a change in their meds or an adjustment of the dosage of the meds.
It’s a difficult situation for all involved when someone loses control and acts in ways that are inappropriate, causing others to be uncomfortable or even frightened. But, most of the time, options aimed at stopping the behavior of someone who isn’t in touch with reality very well aren’t going to be successful.
I would suggest a different attitude: Instead of becoming “mad” because a person is acting “mean”, maybe it would be more helpful for all involved
to adopt an attitude of “compassion” for someone who is “sick”.
Just a thought…
Trevor was upset because he felt that most people with a mental illness WOULD change their attitude/behavior if they COULD. Even having a resistance to treatment is a part of the disease – I think you know that from personal experience. Rahn, who says he is a peer mentor for a bipolar support group, outlined many of the steps they would take in a situation such as the one you described, but the bottom line was that, sometimes, any and all actions just don’t work.
Bipolar disorder IS a disease, and the behavior exhibited by one with this diagnosis are symptoms of that disease. It doesn’t excuse that behavior, but it does help to explain it.
Thank you!
Sue
Dear Dave:
Me again! Just wanted to wish you a fun walk with Anna.
I think you asked (yesterday?) about when babies start to talk and walk?
They all start at different times; babies will begin to “babble” before 6 mos, and usually say single words (”mama”, “dada”, “no!”, etc.) before they’re a year old. As far as walking goes, the median age is 12 months, but some walk as early as 10 months, some as late as 14 months or even a little older, and there’s no problem if they’re “late” walkers or talkers.
They should be walking by age 2 (and putting some words together); if not, the pediatrician may want to do some more evaluation.
Dave, I totally agree that someone with Bipolar Disorder who is “manifesting” should not be allowed out in public. Shame on those supporters & facilitators who wimp out when it comes to standing up to the disorder. Your Mom got it right when she gave you permission to prevent her from embarrassing herself. I have Bipolar Disorder myself & it is a full-time job trying to appear normal. Consequently I stay home a lot. I read your daily emails & appreciate the support. Thanks so much. From Consie.
Hi
This reminds me of the movie “Helen Keler”
Hi Dave
thank you for your e-mail today – I have always believed in the stance that bipolar disorder is NO EXCUSE for bad behaviour, and made this fact quite clear to my partner. His rude, selfish behaviour cost him his previous 2 jobs, which he was politely asked not to come back to. His behaviour is slowly but surely changing in very positive ways the past few months. Just sometimes I have to remind him that his condition is no excuse for his rudeness of selfishness towards me and other people. I take a quite firm stance on this viewpoint. Nobody needs to take abuse from anyone, bipolar or not, period.
I have a 13yo son with BiPolar. I find it very difficult to take him out in public due to his behavior. In any given day, he is extremely angry 80% of it. The morning is the worst, before he has any medication. I sometimes wonder how I’m going to handle it. There are so many times I don’t want to wake up in the morning and deal with his behavior. But I will press on and continue to try and get more support. Thanks Dave for your wonderful, insightful emails. I read them every day. Kellie-WI
Dear Mr. Olive: Thank you so much for the info on Bp. I am a widow and have a close friend who is 74 yr. old. I just love him to pieces. He is bp.
He has been off his med’s for about 3 weeks now. I have had no contact w/ him for these 3 weeks now. I miss him so much and want to contact him but we play bridge together at a club we both belong to. He called me a “bitch” like hi x-wife, and other mean things at the bridge club in front of all the members there ,. which was 16 people.
I am afraid to call him or go to his home to see him as when you try to talk w/ him and talk w/ him he just says “stop,” “stop, “stop. He just continue’s to say bad thing to me. I try to stay calm and not raise my voice but he just will not stop and listen.
He will not physically hurt me or touch me, he never get phycial, just his mouth spits out vinum.
Should I wait till he get back on his med’s to contact him? I heard him tell several people he is going to get back on his’s med’s but when I am around him he does not appear to be taking his med’s.
I have told him on many ocassions that I think he uses his bp as an excuse to get by with the nasty way he talks and treats other people including myself. He just looks at me and grins. I do agree that bp is not an excuse to say and do means things.
We have been seeing each other for about 3 yrs. and he has done so well for so long. I hope to contact him in the near future as I have been to his doctors w/ him on several occassions and hope he lets me back in his life so Ican go w/ him again to his Dr’s. He lies to his Dr.s if I don’t go w/ him to tell them the truth about his condition.
Sorry, did not mean to talk so long but wanted you to know I appreiate all the info I am receiving from you. I totally agree with you. I hope to relay so of your info to him if he will let me.
thanks so much;
Hi Dave,
Once again, thank you for all you do.
I agree with you bipolar should not be an excuse for bad behavior. Just b/c someone has bipolar does not mean they have a right to abuse ….. so i am right with you on this point.
peace and many blessings,
Filiz
I thought the perspective given by Sue in OH was very insightful and I agree with her. Although no one has the right to abuse anyone else, I do think that those exhibiting the behavior described are suffering from the bad effects of his/her illness. I think that the person needs help and mostly compassion. If we ignore the person, hoping he/she will go away or get angry with him/her, we are not at all being helpful, understanding or compassionate.
I think you did right by saying something so many people uses their disabilities to say it is ok i am this way but they should try to reframe from acting the way they do i am one of those that is looking for way to help me and my family to deal with the problems and help us to live with it and not fall back on it as an excuse for why we do the things we do.
Dave et al,
I agree that no one should think they must put up with the BP behaviour of someone else. But it’s their choice. In this instance they have control of themselves if not the person with BP.
As for the person with BP, I think you ask too much. The whole issue with someone in an episode is that they so often don’t, cannot, think rationally. Their behaviour can seem perfectly reasonable to them … at that time. It’s only when they come out of that state of mind hat they realise what they’;ve done, the consequences of what happened, and they can be mortified by that … and as you know, being mortified is an emotion, and negative emotions c an trigger a BP episode! So, it doesn’t help if your BP supporter gets angry and judgemental in your face over something you have limited, if any, control over. It’s just the same as the “pull yourself together” cr#p that so many of us have had to put up with in the depressed stages of the disorder. Streuth! Do they think we want to be in that state, that we’ll sometimes give our lives to escape feeling that way? That if it was just as simple as “pulling your self together” that we’d not do exactly that? Being manic, or hypomanic is as just as controlling as he depressed phases.
That said, the person with BP may be able to exercise SOME measures of control, like doibng all they can so they don’t trigger an episode in the first place, and taking their medication when they are rational. But that doesn’t always work – the BP can bite you whatever you do. The BP is like a dog that like to let you think you are in control but will occasonally turn and bite you just to let you know who is the real boss. Surviving BP is, in my opinion, recognizing that and working round it, to make the very best of the times when you are reasonably functional.
I agree with your opinion concerning the gentleman’s rudeness he exhibited at your meeting, and I want to be your administrative assistant. Please advise me how and when to apply. My shipping address is:
Jan Garcia
5788 Ted Trout Drive
Lufkin, Texas 75904-7450
Thanks.
I do not think it the bad behaviour as such but more the fact that the person seems to refuse to do anything about it. Bipolar untreated can cause behaviour that we can do nothing about …. but we must first admit we have a problem and then bite the bullet and get help.
Prior to diagnosis I thought my behaviour was normal… I figured everyone else was slow and incompetant… but other people were apparently scared of me.
You must also remember that a persons personality depicts who they are – with or without Bipolar – and not all of us exhibit bad behaviour.
Dear Dave: Thank you so much for your gift of keeping us all informed about bipolar disorder. This is such a relief !!! I am very grateful. Both my husband and one of my dearest friend are dealing with this. Both of them are highly intelligent, well educated people who suffer greatly, but are improving on medication and the use of Avatar(R) exercises that also help with attention, will, forgiveness, etc. This results in a much higher quality of life for everybody. I also find these two have a great deal more compassion for everyone else and an amazing capacity for love. Thank you so much for your effort. Marika
I am glad that your mom has given you the go ahead to keep her from making poor decisions, that will only cause more problems in the long run. I am very picky and choosy about what I will and won’t do with my disorder. I have only been verbally aggressive in one situation and it was a time when my medication trials were underway. I was living proof that medications can have adverse affects instead of effectiveness. It took years to get my meds right, and from time to time they still need adjusting. I have always been faithful about taking meds and seeing my doctors regularily…still there is no cure, or exact science.
People with Alzheimer’s are better tolerated than anyone with BP…people need to open their eyes and see there is a similar correlation. Just as Alzheimer’s are forgetful and impulsive without a cure (believe me some of them are very violent especially in latter stages of the disease)…BP can be just as disabling and progressive. Not every person has the same symptoms as they label in the BP category, so no BP is equal to another.
A few weeks ago a very stressful family situation occurred and set me back. There are certain triggers in life that will never be resolved through medications or therapy…that is life. I had an episode as a result, but I had to gather myself and attend a wedding that I really knew I should not have gone too…but it was my sister’s so how could I back out of that. My family hasn’t a clue that when family issues are causing episodes the person with BP should not be held to the highest standard. It is a time when R&R is essential, and getting help if the rest doesn’t do the trick. My childhood was horrible and those scars never heal they just get buried till something triggers the emotional stimuli.
I read an interesting article about BP and it clearly stated that people with BP have brain damage, parts of the hippocampus do not function as it should. Which causes all of the odd behaviors…when a person says they can’t help themselves…………BELIEVE IT!! In some situations they can but there are times when a trigger has the upper hand and rational is missing. BP is not an excuse it is a real medical condition that requires medication and time to recover if an episode has occurred.
Supporters you are the lucky ones….believe me! Yes it may be frustrating and maddening, but the sufferer is wayyyyyyyyy worse off! They don’t want to disappoint others or make poor decisions, but what can not be fixed will remain broken.
An earlier post by MADGRANDMA, talked about medicating a 3 year old… shoot…. 3 year olds do act immature it is all part of an extended terrible 2’s. I have 3 boys. Unless the child is a threat to herself or others medicating should be last resort not first choice to make the caregiver’s life easy. Children’s brains are still developing until they are 21. If the child has been exposed to a parent with BP they are very vulnerable to repeat actions they have learned, they are little sponges absorbing everything they see and hear!! If anything the child should see a therapist for post traumatic stress disorder, and the caregiver should learn coping strategies.
I hesitate to judge the gentleman in this case because I do not know the entire situation, only what is perceived from your perspective. I have bipolar disorder and I understand what it is like to feel like I cannot control my outbursts. However, i must agree it is NOT an excuse. I must pay the consequences for choices made during an episode. I feel that during a support meeting it is up to the meeting facilitator to implement a plan for dealing with such situations and the members there. If everyone had made it clear it was unacceptable he would have been more likely to stop or at least to leave. Before I was diagnosed I could not understand my own outbursts or why I was having them, so I wasn’t very successful at controling them. Understanding and education have helped me to identify the behaviors, making it easier to control the outbursts. If I can’t control it I try to stay away from others while I am in that state.
Thanks Dave. It is good to hear poor behavior is NOT ok!
No one regardless of what the condition is should be allowed to act inappropriately in a public setting. This can escalate into somebody getting seriously hurt, injured or possibly going into an episode from experiencing this sort of an outburst. When you shared this it reminded me of the incident that happen on the Marts bus in Atlanta, where the young lady threaten the elderly lady and no one stop her. Luckily this was recorded and she was forced into treatment for her own sake. Unfortunately, there were no professional people there to handle the situation and fortunate for the elderly lady she didn’t render a response. But, in a setting such as you described, those people in charged at that centered; you would think should have be better equipped to deal with his disturbing behavior.
Did he realize what he was doing? or was he so far gone that he had no control over handling his condition? This is where the supporter comes in to try to snap them back into reality. Sometimes this means by any means necessary to help them help themselves. What one needs to know is how to do this which is the trick. Is it a calming word, a loving touch, a visual vision, what? I believe that’s where you have helped lots of people with your case studies. So I would encourage people to get this specialized knowledge you have compiled and take it from there.
Help is out there, you just have to know how and where to get it. That is:
http://www.bipolarcentral.com. Just a wealth of information.
You David, are a Godsend.
Many continuous blessings.
Definitely bad behavior is unacceptable…however to address why the group did not doing anything….Group behavior that condones seriously wrong behavior, even as far as a group witnessing someone getting killed, and not doing anything about it is known in Social Psychology as “The Bystander Affect”. Do a web search on it…so this means this behavior of a group is typical, and explains why you may see it happen again. It’s a very weird phenomenon.
I’m preparing a blog and website for some of the “why’s” that go unanswered – more of a social as well as biologicall look at bipolar – not to supplant your website Dave – it’s marvelous – just give answers from a different perspective in hopes of further support.
I only recently signed up for your newsletters, and just within the last week began to realize that my husband is bipolar type 2. He has horrible outbursts of anger and rage, but only in private, and I am always the target. He says that he can’t control himself when he gets like that, but obviously he can, or it wouldn’t only happen in private. We have appointments with psychologists and psychiatrists coming soon, I only hope they are soon enough to stop another episode. He says awful, hateful things to me when he is in a manic state, and I am trying my hardest to forget about and forgive the things he said to me in his last episode. I am so tired of dealing with this, and feel so very alone right now. I will continue to try to get him the help he needs, though, because he deserves a normal, healthy life.
As for your goddaughter, give her about 3-4 months. The second year of life is so amazing and fun!! Enjoy her!
Whoa-sorry, it’s “Bystander Effect”, not Affect” – in case anyone noticed and looks it up! Sorry.
Further to my last post and that of Sue in OH, according to my pDoc, no medication currently available is really effective against “switching” moods. I don’t mean “rapid cycling”, which I understand can take place over a number of days, but switches of moods than can happen over a few minutes, or even in one minute. (They are the worst because one can be over brimming with enthusiasm and passion about something, often enthusing others as you do, when …. suddenly tears well up from no where and you want to cry.) The best that can be done, she told me, is it to try to flatten the extremes of those moods with a “mood stabiliser”, such as Lamotrigine or Lithium. But as Sue in OH was saying, there can be “break throughs” even here. So, you cannot plan for these “switches” and one’s supporter may not be on hand to help … because our supporters are not glued to us everywhere we go. Why, mine is out opf the country for half the year! And this assumes there IS a supporter in the first place. Not everyone has ever had one, and many of those who did, their supporters have long gone because they couldn’t stand living with someone who is BP.
(There’s a question for you. What should people with BP do if they don’t have a supporter??)
HI I LOVED YOUR E-MAIL AND I TOTALLY AGREE WITH ALL YOUR ISSUES, ABOUT THE LATE PHONE CALLS AND BI-POLAR EPISODES… AS IAM A GRATEFUL RECOVERING ADDICT AND I HAVE WORKED IN THE PSYCHIATRY FIELD FOR A FEW YRS. I WORKED HANDS ON IN THE INPATIENT PSYCH WARD IN BROOKLYN NEW YORK AS A MENTAL HEALTH WORKER… I LEARNED ALOT THROUGH MY EXPERIENCE AND ALSO READ MY SISTERS PSYCH 1 COLLEDGE BOOK WHEN I WAS HIRED.. I LOVED MY JOB, BUT I LIVE IN LAS VEGAS NOW, WOULD LOVE TO WORK FOR YOU IF THERE IS AN OPENING, PLEASE LET ME KNOW FOR IAM AVAILABLE, THANK YOU, RESPECTFULLY LUCY
thanks dave that was a bost i dont alway know what to do in those times tina
thanks again dave
dear Elisabeth-i know exactly what you are going through. my position is so similar its scary.
bad behavior is no excuse but what if the bad behavior is only seen by certain people, that its hidden from society and friends etc. and when in company the person comes across as the most wonderful person ever. but behind closed doors this other person emerges that only you(meaning i see)? and that everybody would think you were stark raving mad if you even mentioned that there was a problem?
i am always the target.
I read similar article also named Update and Bipolar disorder is NOT an excuse for this, and it was completely different. Personally, I agree with you more, because this article makes a little bit more sense for me
Hi Dave,
I was with someone who is 40 years old, knows that he has Bipolar and DOES NOT take medication for it. HE KNOWS that he needs sleep (for fear of being moody), HE KNOWS he needs to eat right (health reasons, that’s obvious), HE KNOWS he shouldn’t drink (for fear of being out of control), HE KNOWS he shouldn’t watch scary movies (for fear of thinking bad thoughts or acting on them). He also knows that he needs help and used that as a ploy to get me back by asking me to help him. I set him up with a Psychologist but he was on a high and did not tell the truth. Life is not okay the way it is right now because the guy that I cared about did not take medication, therefore was caught with his pants down on several occassions.
You previously said that Bipolar is not an excuse for bad behaviour. It’s even worse when the guy knows that he his Bipolar and proceeds to go through life pretending that he isn’t therefore, hurting EVERYONE in his path.
There is one more thing I would like to tell you…I’m pretty sure I opened Pandora’s Box by calling a guy off his phone. Ever since then, he has kinda snapped! He dumped his best friend and has gestured to kill me on a couple of occassions. One day, I was doing the dishes, he was cutting some kinda food or something. When I turned around, he was looking down at the knife he had pointed in my backside, with a weird smirk on his face. It might’ve been the same night when we were laying in bed and he said something about killing me and hanging me up on one of those hospital curtain rods (the one around each bed) where he could pull me around whenever he wanted to see me or vice versa. He also has RLS (Restless Legs Syndrome and EVERY symptom of a Sociopath). His RLS keeps him awake at night and he gets up and punches the wall, but he said if he sees me sleeping, he gets even more angry. One night he propped up his pillow in between us (like a barrier). I’m not sure if it was because he didn’t want to see me sleeping OR he didn’t want me to see him. I don’t know why, but I woke up in the middle of the night, peeked over the pillow and he was flat on his back, in a semi-conscious state and his head was flipping back and forth, right to left quite briskly (it looked pretty freaky, kinda like exorcist). I asked him if he was okay, then I proceedsed to massage his head to relax him. I’ve recently talked to a Mental Health Worker and was told to call the police. The police would then pick him up and take him to the hospital for assessment.
What do you think about this?
Tammy
To TAMMY – First of all, the next time he even THINKS about harming you, much less points a knife in your direction – DO call 911. The police have people who can come to the home and assess the situation. You do NOT have to live as if you’re “walking on eggshells” with this guy. To me, he sounds DANGEROUS.
I have Restless Leg Syndrome, and sometimes take meds for it. But – I DON’T punch the walls! By all means, protect YOURSELF. I know you love him, but getting the care he so desperately needs right now is of utmost importance.
Good luck, and may God bless you real good.
Hello
I have witnessed my son losing control in restaurants and in my home.I bought his dinner and felt very angry that he acted so ungrateful. If the waitress dosen’t understand his order (he is into organics)or if you say anything about his moods he jumps up pounds the table and leaves. I leave him out there and eventually he comes back in after he has had time to think. Once when we were out of town I told him to get in and eat his food or we were leaving now. The less sympathy I gave him and the more direct I was about not accepting his behavior the better. He was acting like a child and he was 23 at the time. He was acting fine until he felt challenged or questioned about what he wanted to eat.It’s like Jekyll and Hyde but I understand the sickness more now. Most of the time he is humble and apologetic but he knows i don’t go along with bad behavior and it was a long time before i treated him to dinner again.I won’t put up with it. He works 6-7days a week now doing cleaning and maintenance at a fish facility in Wa. He is doing okay but still has depressios he fights with. Take Care
i take all my meds regularly. even so i recently had a manic episode in which i was highly delusional. yes i dont want to look like an idiot and intimidate people etc but when in that state i truly believe that what is in my mind is true. any action from others to tell me this is not true is seen as them collaborating with whatever powers may be. i dont want to behave this way, i dont do it deliberately. i do everything i can to stop these things happening, take my meds etc. its NOT an ‘excuse’ for bad behaviour, but its not a ploy for attention or me ‘just being bad’
You were not being mean. This is how my husband acts and no-one stops him because he uses and everyone else uses the bipolar as an excuse. It was probably him at the meeting. He can be very tricky though and act like Jekyll and Hyde very well so he can control it when he really wants to, but most of the time he says “i want to abuse and amuse”, “that’s what i exist to do, amuse and abuse”.
I think we just don’t know how to handle a lion out of the cage without getting hurt. I have to protect my son and myself from this all of the time. Now we are healing. Healing from the trauma of the experiences for a mother and child from being around someone so manic and mean is a long journey.
But I recently learned in therapy that it does not matter what mental illness someone has, abuse is not acceptable. Bad behavior is not acceptable. People can control their bipolar by taking meds properly. We were told forever that it was the illness, blame it on the illness. That was wrong and made us abused alot longer than we should have been. I can’t tell you how many times I had to take my son to the ER for medical problems related to stress and anxiety from his father’s mania.
Hi Dave,
This is in response to your post about people complaining that your articles are too negative. Do you know what?
I still love them! I am in the healing process after a dear friend of mine who had BPD committed suicide. Even though she is now gone, the hurt and the memories of her actions and rages still haunt me. I find reading your articles very validating, reassuring to me, as well as comforting and soothing.
Before my friend offed herself, I frequently blamed myself for her ways because she had me believing it was me who was causing her to be the way she was. When I realized that she might have undiagnosed BPD, I subscribed to your email list and have been blessed with the comfort and validation of your emails!
Please David, don’t let these complaints stop you from doing what you’re doing! I for one, of many, I am sure, fully appreciate what you are sending us, and I am sorry that I haven’t taken the time to thank you on this as often as I should! Your works mean a lot to me and I am sure a whole lot of other people as well!
God Bless, David, and if there is any other way in which we can thank you or show our appreciation, let me know!
Sincerely,
Patty Schlossberg
ps, I realize what i wrote is addressed to the bpd issue and it is posted on the bipolar, but where can I find the bpd site to post this? I dont want to offend anyone here.
thank you Ruth – my husband acts like I make this up and complains about the cost of the dr, the meds, the ins. I ask him if he would rather me be off everything and in a hospital somewhere or stable here. I am not sure what is choice would really be!
Today I was reading about how if someone really wants to be responsible for their behavior, even if they have mental illness of any kind, than they will see to it that the medications are the right ones by asking family and friends “does this medication make me seem better to you?” when they do not have insight into knowing it themselves. An alcoholic only gets better when they try to control their behavior. A bipolar sufferer only gets better when they control their behavior, their mouth, their anger and rages and so forth. And until they can be around people in such a way that is not acting in such a way as to be the center of attention and sap the energy out of every special occasion (funny how they usually think they are the life of the party when it is just the opposite), they won’t get invited to weddings and festivities and holidays and parties and special occasions. People have only a few special days in their lives and they don’t want them ruined by a problematic parent or sibling or friend that will not act within the norms of accetable behavior. The only way to affect change is to hold someone that behaves in an antisocial way (as does someone with bipolar much of the time when not medicated properly), responsible for their behavior.
Dave, I totally agree with you. My daughter has bipolar disorder and sometimes my husband doesn’t want to be too hard on her with her bad behavior because he is afraid that she might hurt herself. Unfortunately, most of her manic episodes are at night and she uses me as a “punching bag” verbally. I’m the “weak link” due to having MS. Just found this site and I’m grateful for any help.
My wife of 25 years was diagnosed BP I w/psychosis during a hospital stay of ten days approximately 1.5 yrs. ago. She has been on a second manic power toot for a little over one month. She sleeps in three hour spurts & acts like an idiot. I have secured her check books, credit cards, car keys, drivers license, passport, cell phone, etc., etc. Boy, is she angry about not being able to drive the car-car. She treats me like the human equivalent of bat guano, says I’m the crazy one, abuse her, & is going to have me imprisoned for stealing her stuff. I am 62, a retired judicial executive, and desire a peaceful life, but have no qualms about calling BS on her acting out in public. I would not physically abuse her, but certainly would not hesitate to either firmly escort her from a public place or else leave her in a situation that would result in her being arrested for disturbing the peace.
She apparently “fired” her psychiatrist & is not taking the supplemental anti-psychotic to mitigate the mania (Risperdal). She thinks she is a poster girl for Lamictal (100mg/day).
I intend to watch her crash & burn … then go to the hospital again. Once she stabilizes, I will require that she grant me irrevocable medical & legal power of attorney. If she doesn’t, I intend to divorce her so she can be free & become a homeless street person. Seems a shame — all for being unwilling to take a freaking pill.